And then the lawyers just kept going on and on about the catastrophic risks of AI and whether Elon Musk or OpenAI was in the better position to steward AI safety. And the judge sort of snapped. She said very sternly that this trial was not about whether or not artificial intelligence has damaged humanity. And I thought that was a really striking standout moment of the trial that pointed at how even though it is technically just about whether Elon Musk was really deceived by OpenAI, it’s also become a huge discussion about AI safety and some of the practices that the labs are engaging in when building AI.
Can you give us a look behind the curtain at how getting into this trial works?
There are tons of reporters. This is a very high-profile suit, so I have to wake up around 4:30 a.m. and show up to the Oakland courthouse at 6 a.m. sharp to get in line. And on some days, even 6 a.m. doesn’t get you into the courtroom. There are lots of photographers in front of the courthouse, especially on days when you know Musk or Altman and Brockman are present. And there’s also some concerned citizens who want to watch the trial. I usually have to wait, like, two hours in line to get in to be one of the 30 people who claim the unreserved seats in the courtroom.
What has it felt like to see Elon Musk testify? How would you describe his demeanor?
He shows up in a crisp black suit. He can be this inflammatory person on X, but in the courtroom, he is calm, cool, collected, and looks very comfortable. He has been in a lot of lawsuits. He knows how to talk to the jury and how to present himself in front of them and the judge. He’s also cracking jokes with his lawyer and even the opposing party’s lawyer and the judge.
And he can be witty. There was this one moment when OpenAI’s lawyer was asking Musk a question and sort of fed him an answer. And Musk said “That’s not a leading question, that’s a leading answer.” The judge intervened and said, “You’re not a lawyer, Elon.” And then he was like, “Well, I did take Law 101.”
That said, he does get flustered and uncomfortable when OpenAI’s lawyer asks tough, piercing questions. Which he’s been doing.
What are the biggest things we’ve learned that weren’t clear in the earlier phases of this case?